My MR2 ongoing project, I guess I'll just encompass everything in here...

[WhiteMKIII]

Car is looking real nice Matt!

[mikecentola]

yeah it's coming along real nicely!

[Cleck]

Originally Posted by Captain Moai

Looks like you had slicks on. My bet would be CV cage went byebye. Common upgrade.

One of the mr2oc guys had a 2.2L stroker, nitrous, 2 step and massive drag slicks for the launch. He actually bent the stock rods at 24psi on that pass, but the transmission's never given him an issue. Doubt you'll have problems with the E153.

I'm not totally sure. The tranny was being a bitch ever since I got it, so prolly a good time for a rebuild anyways. They weren't slicks, but close enough: r-comps I use for autox/racing.

I've seen a bunch of posts in the drag section with people saying they broke their axle cages on high rpm launches - is this what you're talking about?

Right now the rear end is binding when we try to push the car, we'll definitely check it out this week.

Even if it's just the cages, I wanna see about upgrading or rebuilding the following: clutch, tranny, axles, cages.

Also alarming was my pass: 14.99 @ 90.94mph, 2.0 60'. The mr2oc guys are saying that's slow - which I know based on what I read. I should have been faster, like closer to low 14's, high 13's. I know I'm a noob at doing this, but what about mechanical or turbo probs leading to this? They're saying maybe I was running out of steam? Only thing I can think of is just the tranny limiting me.

[Captain Moai]

Hmmm. Trap speed's a bit on the low side. I had a grinding 2nd gear at the time and couldn't figure out the launch right, so I was cutting mid to low 14's, but my traps were dead even at 99.5, 99.7 and 99.3mph. The car was running 15psi, with an intake, blitz nur spec exhaust and a gutted cat at the time. Stock 93+ tire sizes on her. That's it.

Sounds like you have some power issues. Have you checked the compression, given her a full tuneup and such? I'm sure you'll sort out the driveline issues - i'd be willing to bet it's a CV, but i'd get it tuned up first and on the dyno to find out where you're missing power.

[Cleck]

Well I'm not running those boost levels like you - just the swap at 10psi. That's like 225 fw hp, plus the 3" dp, and that's all I'm running.

[Cleck]

Soooo the car is fixt. For now. Seems I destroyed the bushing holding the shifter cable to the shifter lever on the tranny. We put the car up on the lift today (after a long day of working on the Supra and being 2hrs late to class due to a god damn comealong, lol) and were looking around, I found the cable just dangling there. I put my finger on the shifter on the tranny and it went through the gears, the wheels spun opposite of eachother while not in gear (good diff) and the wheels spun together while in gear (good tranny). Talk about luck. We put a nut on it and a washer and bent a pin around it for a quick fix. I'm ordering the hardware from Toyota, replacing both of them, even though the other cable doesn't need it. Don't want that happening. Maybe it'll firm up my shifts a bit? Who knows. Anyways, pics. OHh and thanks to Mike for hooking me up big time so I could get the car to class. My first lesson in driving a big truck and long trailer was a bit of a crash course, for lack of better words The only thing that sucks is half the front lip is missing from the tow truck driver, grrrr. Oh well, I should just get a new bumper next spring anyways, screw the whole lip thing.











For any of you that know him, Doug Rivers - my instructor at MCC and also a guy who is very smart and challenges people. My lab parter for today was Ben, he's a big dude. So Doug was right again today and I over reacted, saying I need a new tranny and clutch and blah blah blah. I jumped to conclusions, lol. I'm sure I could upgrade those anyways if I'm gonna keep racing.



I hate when other people are right. I also hate comealongs. Just a long day, lol.



Me enjoying the car in the parking lot, seeing how the shifter cables held up, and if anything else was gonna blow.

[mikecentola]

LOL nice! You have that concerned thinker look

[Cleck]

Yeah well you know me Mike, sometimes I have to think harder than most. Doug says I have too much energy, lol.

[mikecentola]

So you're kinda like a puppy

[Baldturbofreak]

Originally Posted by Captain Moai

plus an upgraded sidemount is going to be a rough choice for a turbo with that kind of potential. Megasquirt is capable, but very particular and setting it up on the MR2 has proven to be more of a problem than any other part on the car. May as well toss it and re-pin the ECU plugs for a powerFC, or throw an AEM or Hydra at it. Ain't worth the hassle to spend dough on a MS and still have hurdles to overcome... for the MR2's ecu, anyway.

Hmm I guess Im biased since I feel comfortable with them, but I think it was easy as hell.
The hardest part was figuring out how to make the factory tach work. It was as simple as 4) 4n001 diodes (We used LS2 coils for COP) and a $35 MSD tach adapter to provide a flyback pulse.
$5-600 is a long way from a $1600-2200 hydra or AEM.

[Cleck]

Well finally got these in the mail today and decided to try and get them on in the driveway. First one was easy to pull off cuz it already was off, just broke the pin and pulled the nut off with the half-bushing inside it. 2nd one was a bigger pain in the ass. Only way to get at it was to go down through the engine lid (as opposed to being under the car for the other), remove the intake and a couple other tubes. After some working on it, the rubber part had completely broken away, but the inside sleeve had seized to the pin partially. Luckily I have a grinder and was able to grind away enough of the sleeve to pull the rest of it off the pin. After that, install was a breeze. Shifts are much tighter now, little bit to get used to after having some slack in them, but should definitely help me at the strip I hope.







This is the view from above, looking down through the lid/engine bay.



Obviously this is underneath.

All in all, not bad and sure is better than rebuilding a tranny I might still do that in the spring, but buy another one and rebuild it, get it ready to swap the stocker out.

[Cleck]

Cross posted from mr2oc.com

After reading around, this seemed pretty normal but I wanted to share anyways.

Went to a local forum shop yesterday for a dyno day, $75 for two pulls, no tuning. The car is basically stock (except the swap), with an unknown downpipe and an Omori boost gauge. There is also a Prosport water temp gauge too.

I knew the car would be rich, but I didn't think it'd be pig rich. Apparently it pegged their AFR meter at 10, which is as low as it'd go.

First pull I made 163whp/189 ft-lbs and the shop owner said it felt like the car wouldn't pull anything past 5600ish, which I also read that the ct26's have no balls above 5 grand. First pull sheet shows the AFR at 20, but I think that's because we pegged it and it didn't read it right.

Second pull we let the car "warm up" a bit more, cuz the first one was only at 150* on the gauge, so this one was at 180*. Made less power, 157whp/178 ft-lbs, but he said it pulled through the entire time.

Both pulls the car was at almost 9psi.

Questions: 1) What is the peak operating temperature for the car? The PS gauge beeped at me when it hit 180-200* at an autocross one day, but the rad fan doesn't kick on til about 180 anyways. When driving, the car seems to be at 160. My Grand Am has an OT of about 200 or so and that seems "normal" to me. I know people say the PS gauges can be inaccurate but I've never found what the temps should be anyways.

2) With the car being so rich, it was spitting/burping unburnt fuel out the exhaust. I know being rich can foul the plugs and when I bought the car last fall, the plugs were just done that spring. Not sure of what plugs though. Correct me if I'm wrong but in order to lean out the AF mix, I either need to up the boost or get a fuel controller, right?

3) The guy looking at my car/doing the pulls said I have a vein flow meter? Might have that mixed up but I thought it was an AFM? He said it looked the same as the one on his Mustang and that it could be recalibrated.

Other than that, my limited knowledge tells me that these numbers are normal for an otherwise stock motor and it seems ok. I could be wrong though, so let me know if I am.

Hopefully you can read these, if not I will copy the pics when the owner puts them up on our forums later.

[Captain Moai]

Originally Posted by Cleck

The car is basically stock (except the swap), with an unknown downpipe and an Omori boost gauge. There is also a Prosport water temp gauge too.

I knew the car would be rich, but I didn't think it'd be pig rich. Apparently it pegged their AFR meter at 10, which is as low as it'd go.

First pull I made 163whp/189 ft-lbs and the shop owner said it felt like the car wouldn't pull anything past 5600ish, which I also read that the ct26's have no balls above 5 grand. First pull sheet shows the AFR at 20, but I think that's because we pegged it and it didn't read it right.

Second pull we let the car "warm up" a bit more, cuz the first one was only at 150* on the gauge, so this one was at 180*. Made less power, 157whp/178 ft-lbs, but he said it pulled through the entire time.

Both pulls the car was at almost 9psi.

Questions: 1) What is the peak operating temperature for the car? The PS gauge beeped at me when it hit 180-200* at an autocross one day, but the rad fan doesn't kick on til about 180 anyways. When driving, the car seems to be at 160. My Grand Am has an OT of about 200 or so and that seems "normal" to me. I know people say the PS gauges can be inaccurate but I've never found what the temps should be anyways.

2) With the car being so rich, it was spitting/burping unburnt fuel out the exhaust. I know being rich can foul the plugs and when I bought the car last fall, the plugs were just done that spring. Not sure of what plugs though. Correct me if I'm wrong but in order to lean out the AF mix, I either need to up the boost or get a fuel controller, right?

3) The guy looking at my car/doing the pulls said I have a vein flow meter? Might have that mixed up but I thought it was an AFM? He said it looked the same as the one on his Mustang and that it could be recalibrated.

Other than that, my limited knowledge tells me that these numbers are normal for an otherwise stock motor and it seems ok. I could be wrong though, so let me know if I am.

It really doesn't matter if you have an aftermarket downpipe, so long as you're breathing out the stock flexpipe and catback. Horribly restrictive - necks down to about 1.5" in the flex section.

The numbers look within the ballpark for a bone stock Mr2, plus you can tell TVIS is doing its thing, since there's that cute little dip before 4400 when it snaps open and freaks out the stock computer for a second. I don't know what maintenence you've done to the car, but from the dyno sheet it looks generally okay. Usually most owners expect around 160-165whp and a 190-200 peak tq readout. Given that this is a mustang dyno, it's probably fine. The main things holding Mr2's back are ignition. Get a fresh set of plugs onboard - NGK's or Denso's, not some shit offbrand. Consider doing the cap, rotor and wires while you're at it, plus a fresh fuel filter for safety. Ignition component degradation is one of the larger killers of power on a turbo car.

The OEM thermostat is rated to open at 180 degrees, so chances are the 180-200 range is exactly where you're supposed to be. Next time don't jam on it until it's fully warmed up, or else the ECU will be dumping more fuel than you've ever seen. The stock fuel system has enough juice to supply over 260whp when it's in good operating condition. Spitting unburnt fuel out the exhaust is NOT normal however, even though they do run pig rich in stock condition. You should be getting a good burn. That brings me back to doing a quality tuneup and checking for vacuum/boost leaks. Consider looking at the valvecover and resealing it as well. That's another possible source of leakage that most people don't detect.

Upping the boost will supply a denser mixture which in turn will require more fuel. The car doesn't simply dump "X" amount of fuel when you go WOT. It takes its reading from the airflow meter's load, the RPM and uses the MAP sensor as a backup reference. To lean out the mixture requires careful tuning on this car, as it runs a very rich fuel map, but also a VERY advanced amount of timing. That's what gained it a bad reputation for cracking piston ringlands and blowing headgaskets early in its life, when people leaned out the mix with a fuel controller which made the ECU advance the timing even more under load. I've heard reports of 22+ degrees of total timing at peak load from idiots running SAFC's with the fuel values set way into the negative.
read Welcome To MR Controls for info on how to safely use a blackbox on this car. it'll save your motor, really.

That brings me to the airflow meter. Yours has an airflow meter, not a vein pressure converter, map sensor, MAF or speed density. It's an airflow meter. I can see the bottom of it in the picture of the shift bushings. It's the same old school piece of shit that's on old miatas. You are not to try to adjust it in any way, because the second you unscrew those two phillips head screws on the side of the connector and pull it off, you'll break the soldered connections and destroy it. Do not unscrew it - unclip the connector. In fact, get a grinder out and grind the heads off those screws so that nobody else is tempted to try to adjust it or do any other stupid shit to it. The stock AFM is fine up through the limits of the stock fuel pump, which runs out of safe room somewhere north of 280whp. Beyond that you'll need bigger injectors anyway, and you'll need a device to control them. This is where you'll step in with another piece of gear and replace the AFM with something else. Megasquirts give you the option to use lots of stuff. I've seen guys use the Nemisys which eliminates the stock AFM, or plug in a PowerFC and swap over the JDM 3rd gen MAP sensor and repin the stock ecu harness. Whatever path you take, know this:
YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO FUCK UP YOUR CAR BY TINKERING WITH THE STOCK AFM.
It's perfectly reliable, it does the job it needs to do and it has good resolution all the way until you're in need of a Walbro pump. Do not fuck with it. At most, clean it out with MAF or electrical parts cleaner and leave it the hell alone.
Find Ricky's Power Primer on Welcome To MR Controls. Study it. It's a complete How-To-Make-Power-Safely guide for the 3sgte. The man has blown enough engines to know what works and what doesn't.

[Cleck]

Thanks for the words man, I appreciate it. I've been reading the MR2 Power Primer and have known not to fuck with that AFM, I did read something about tuning it so to speak, for cold start mornings. I think I will just do as you say though.

As far as the car being that rich, could my dirty as cone air filter be the problem not getting it enough air to combust? It's fucking dirty as can be, but how much would that affect it? It's just a K&N slapped on the end, right at the AFM. A friend told me to soak it in some degreaser, like Simple Green, then wash it off with water and get the K&N Filtercharger kit and spray that shit on there.

When I bought the car, I was told the plugs and wires were done that spring before, could they be worn out by now? I'll not take my chances and just get the Tune Up kit off twosrus.

Rick and I talked about doing a MS setup for this car, I wanna have it running well and pulling hard.

[Captain Moai]

Originally Posted by Cleck

As far as the car being that rich, could my dirty as cone air filter be the problem not getting it enough air to combust? It's fucking dirty as can be, but how much would that affect it? It's just a K&N slapped on the end, right at the AFM. A friend told me to soak it in some degreaser, like Simple Green, then wash it off with water and get the K&N Filtercharger kit and spray that shit on there.

When I bought the car, I was told the plugs and wires were done that spring before, could they be worn out by now? I'll not take my chances and just get the Tune Up kit off twosrus.

Rick and I talked about doing a MS setup for this car, I wanna have it running well and pulling hard.

Yeah a dirty filter could screw with a few things. Wouldn't hurt to clean it or change it entirely if you can. You can find a decent cone filter at an autoparts store for under $20. IIRC, even though you can clean a K&N, there is a TON of flow restriction from the crap still stuck in the cotton mesh. I just replace the filter with a cheapie cotton unit once a year.

Sure the plugs and wires could be dead. Who knows if they were really done. I was told the plugs on my jeep were changed when i bought it and when I removed them last week to inspect them, they were the original goddamn platinums from 1999. Baseline your igntion with a set of OEM wires, quality NGK or Denso plugs, a little antiseize on the threads and a new cap and rotor. Remove and ohm test the ignition coil to make sure it's not dying - they're getting old and some are starting to crack on the electrode tip, which has caused some high rpm misfires. Change the fuel filter while you're at it. Who knows when it was last done or what it's got stuck in it. Make sure all your air piping is tight, not cracked and has a good seal.
I removed my throttlebody when I first got the car and it looked like an underground cavern. There was this stalactite of black sooty carbon hanging down from the top. I literally broke it off with my finger and spent the rest of the time cleaning out the rest of the TB.

Other than that, as long as she's got fresh, clean fluids and good voltage, she's ready for more mods. Catback, boost controller, IC and let it rip. You'll know if you get boost creep or not.

[Cleck]

Now that I re-read this, I saw you stated that 180-200 is prolly normal operating temps. That's weird, the 2 only gets to 180 when I'm sitting in traffic idling or something. Most of the time it's at 160 when driving. I guess this could explain why the car was sooooooooo rich the first run though, we were only at 160 when we did the pull.

I am thinking about replacing the turbo. I'm not sure that it needs it, but I noticed it's got some oil on the bottom of it when I had it on the lift the other day. What causes the leak? Bad seals? I at least want to have another turbo on hand in case something does happen, that way we can put this one in. What do you recommend? I am not sure what direction to go but I don't want a laggy turbo and want to be able to be in the powerband more when I'm racing. When I'm at the track, this is not a problem cuz I'm going faster and am winding the turbo up more. At the autox though, this is not the case. It seems I am just starting to get into the band or the middle of it, then I have to turn or brake or something. After Rick gets a MS tune on it for about 15 psi on 93 with an intake and exhaust (do you suggest manifold too?) and get that intercooler installed, I want to be sitting around 250whp or so. I know that's a lot for autox, but for everything else, I'd like that.

Ideas/opinions? I'd rather not pay out the ass for one, so if it bolts up to the Toyota manifold and the dp I have and I can rebuild one for a lower cost, that'd be great.

[Baldturbofreak]

ISnt the stock toyoda manifold t-3 flange?

[Cleck]

To be honest, I have no clue. Either it is or I see flanges with adapters to mate up with 3bolt flanges.

[Captain Moai]

Ah you're fine. For 250whp, you don't have to look far. In fact if you have the ceramic CT26 onboard now (which you probably do), chances are you could hit that number or damn close to it as it is. If you want a little more headroom on power and good spool without breaking the bank, toss on one of ATS's CT27's, do your other supporting mods and you'll get 250whp no sweat. Not to take away from Rick, but they do make a ct27 Romtune that's specially made for either the stock 440cc injectors or an optional one for 550's. It's a decent package and it's pretty potent on the roadcourse, too. You could always go the disco potato route (GT2860r) or its larger cousin the GT2871r, which will still get great response and give a lot more headroom for power. Unfortunate aspect is that you'll easily double your budget fitting one of those suckers onboard. www.speed-source.net makes a kickass "stealth" stock-style GT28 series kit for the engine. Even fits under the stock heatshield.

If you've got oil coming out the bottom of the turbo, you're better off removing it and just going with a replacement. It could be just an old gasket for the return line, but it could also be the beginning of the end for that turbocharger. Why take a chance. Stock manifold does not have a T3 flange. I can't remember what flange it uses, but it's a four bolt, twin-entry flange off the manifold into the turbocharger. Does not accept T3 or T25 flanged turbos without the appropriate adapter.

Oh and on the cooling thing... the reason it takes MR2's a while to get up to temp is becuase of the fact that we're dragging around 20 feet of radiator piping. It's a ton of surface area for heat transfer. That coolant has lost a lot of heat by the time it gets to the radiator and loses even more on the way back to the engine. This is why you'll really never have to upgrade an MR2's cooling system. As long as it's functioning according to factory spec, you're all good.

[Baldturbofreak]

hmm weird. THe Duece's I worked on had upgraded CT's on a aftermarket manifold. A Gt35R bolted in in it's place. Without a doubt T3. But those may have been an upgraded turbine housing as well. I dunno.
Now a Gt28 series defintly will require an adapter. It's smaller in every dimention.

Im all for easy, esp for a newbie on a budget. Usually if the stay mild (and they never do, lol) a well used recipie will do what they need.
What sucks balls about a rechipped ecm is that your painted into a corner. Make a change, alter the VE of the motor or travel beyond the range of that MAF and your throwing it out.
And at $700 just for a chip holy fuck man! I gotta start selling mail order $700 chips. Maybe I wont have to work so hard anymore. :LOL:

[Captain Moai]

Yeah. They are quite pricey. For a plug and play solution, it's a great failsafe, but realistically you can get a powerFC or MS onboard for about the same money.

There's the manifold. You tell me what flange that is. I've always been led to believe it's Toyota's proprietary flange for its CT series turbochargers. There is no other turbocharger in Toyotas lineup that will bolt to it except for the CT26 made for the mr2. Even the MKIII supra's CT26 requires an exhaust housing swap.
versus a T3 flange....

[Baldturbofreak]

Cool it's defintly T3. Good find bud. That opens up some options.

[Captain Moai]

I don't think it's a T3, man. Here's a CT26 to T3 flange adapter. You can see the difference between the two:

CT-26 to T3 Manifold Adapter

[Baldturbofreak]

Lol. I jsut realized that the second pic was a t3 for comparison. Missed the "t3" caption on the right of it.

I dunno, John's turbos must have been off of the landcruiser then. I unbolted it and hung on the Gt35.
The header was fabricated by some shop in Toronto.

[Cleck]

What about rebuilding the CT26 and getting/fabbing a better manifold to open things up?