M3 race car future: IP or JP, Opinions please.

[91rs13]

OK--So let me see if I get this.

The E36 can be run in either class --even if it originally was an "M" and not a 325 or 328?

Also--you have already made all of the max modiifications to your white car outside of safety stuff for Either Class?

In looking at the lap times this past year ---the top cars in both classes are running similar lap times
At WGI IP -2:10-2:11 JP 2:11-2:13
At Mont Tremblant --both 1:55's -1:57's
LRP ---1:01's -1:02's

Bruce K and I were talking about e36's for a few months and he has me convinced a prep'd e36 328 is the car to go with ( lower cost --upgrade suspension, cheaper motors


I am cheap --so with the similar lap times--go the 325/328 engine route. )--Save the $$ for travel expenses, Fuel and of Course TIRES!!!!!

DJ

[JClark]

Thanks DJ.

Yes the E36 can run in either class, it just depends on the motor (there are different minimum weights associated with each swap and each chassis, but they are minor differences).

The white car is maxed (and competitive) except for the cage and the motor. Aero work is not totally up to par but it's fine to start with. Both classes allow the same modifications, just have different motor starting points. To swap between classes would be a matter of plugging in a different motor, so no decision is final.

The performance disparity really is minimal. It's only horsepower and it's a 30-40whp difference so those lap times would make sense. Last time at WGI I did a 2:13.1, so I'm already close. I'm currently 180lbs heavier than either class, with less grip (corded/cording RA1s), and less hp (10whp less than JP and ~50whp less than IP). So lap time for lap time I'm in the running to be competitive. Does my thought process add up? Sticker set of R6s, less weight, and more power = .5-3 seconds at WGI?


re: Bruce and the 328: the best part about the E36 is that so many people track them, every setup has been tested and proven so you know what works and what doesnt without pouring money into your own R&D. Motors are cheap, parts are cheap. They are also extremely easy to drive fast, which could be a blessing or a curse. Anytime I do a lap in another car, it takes a lot of babysitting to keep it at 10/10ths compared to my car. It's easy to run fast laps but that doesnt necessarily make for a better driver.

Also, one con I didnt mention, JP would put me in the 'engine swap' group for COMSCC and every other time trial, which I would be no where near as fast. Not a huge deal, but would bum me out. IP however would put me in SPA again and I'd be mucho faster than I was at Tremblant. Possibly getting a rematch with Mr. Price's 911 is a good reason to stay IP. Cars are fun.

[Cavi Mike]

Originally Posted by JClark

Any reasoning on IP?

I'm out there to win the races I attend, but the best wins are with the closest competition.

Because I think that you want some quick numbers. Some bragging rights, if you will. A close race win will always give you the biggest rush at the finish line but what will it do for you at the end when you were driving a slower car than you could have been? It's always nice to be top-dog in your class but I think it's better to be shooting for top-dog in the next class, especially when it's a class that you very easily could have been in. For some reason I'm at a loss for words to describe what I'm trying to convey but hopefully I got my point across.

[GranMassaX]

going broke fueling your hobby is no fun. Go JP! And if it sucks (which I doubt) then try IP next year.

[JClark]

I might build a spare parts IP motor now since I have so much stuff laying around and do JP next year, or after the IP motor goes boom (the opposite). Thanks.

Originally Posted by Cavi Mike

Because I think that you want some quick numbers. Some bragging rights, if you will. A close race win will always give you the biggest rush at the finish line but what will it do for you at the end when you were driving a slower car than you could have been? It's always nice to be top-dog in your class but I think it's better to be shooting for top-dog in the next class, especially when it's a class that you very easily could have been in. For some reason I'm at a loss for words to describe what I'm trying to convey but hopefully I got my point across.

I do get your point, but that's the whole objective of classing cars; so you can maximize your cars potential relative to your competition when there is a defined limit. What the car can do makes little difference to me, it really isnt about the car at all but about the racing. If I'm in IP, I'm out to break the IP record and win the IP class. Same with JP. There's always going to be a faster class out there. You can now bring a BMW-powered Daytona Prototype to a BMWCCA race and call it SuperMod. You'll have no competition, but you'll take the overall win each time. I'd rather race with a tight group of similar cars.

[bennyfizzle]

Originally Posted by JClark

I might build a spare parts IP motor now since I have so much stuff laying around and do JP next year, or after the IP motor goes boom (the opposite). Thanks.





I do get your point, but that's the whole objective of classing cars; so you can maximize your cars potential relative to your competition when there is a defined limit. What the car can do makes little difference to me, it really isnt about the car at all but about the racing. If I'm in IP, I'm out to break the IP record and win the IP class. Same with JP. There's always going to be a faster class out there. You can now bring a BMW-powered Daytona Prototype to a BMWCCA race and call it SuperMod. You'll have no competition, but you'll take the overall win each time. I'd rather race with a tight group of similar cars.

do JP and pop all the non vanos m50's you can get your hands on

[crazybrew609]

JP sounds like it's FTMFW!

[BoxerSix]

Originally Posted by JClark

I might build a spare parts IP motor now since I have so much stuff laying around and do JP next year, or after the IP motor goes boom (the opposite). Thanks.

So what you're telling me is your decision is going to be based on what I say about this 3.2L crank here?

[Moai]

Originally Posted by BoxerSix

So what you're telling me is your decision is going to be based on what I say about this 3.2L crank here?

Either that or it'll be based off how light his wallet is after the first few races. Since money is made on labor, and chances are he'll be more willing to pop several 2.8's instead of a single 3.2.... Be charitable Help the guy out.

Gee Adam, damn shame about that crank's #4 bearing surface, isn't it?

[BoxerSix]

Originally Posted by Moai

Gee Adam, damn shame about that crank's #4 bearing surface, isn't it?

Number 4? Try mains 2-7, thrust, and rod journal 1.

Loose oil pump nut 1, crank Jesse could probably buy a 2.8 for the money he'd sink into repairing this crank unfortunately.

[JClark]

S52 cranks are like $500....M50 vanos motors are about $500.

I'm at VIR headed back up to Richmond where there's an S52 block for sale pretty cheap. Worth getting?

I can also get an assembled S52 bottom end in NYC, maybe 80k miles on it for an unknown price. Gimme a call if you think either is a good idea, I know you haven't checked the crank out yet.