Rogue Engineering

Cavi Mike · #1 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 03:25 AM

When Rogue Engineering says that not all suspension bushings are created the same, you better f'n believe them. Their site claims that many of the urethane bushings on the market are made of a very soft, pliable Shore A* urethane. Rogue's are Shore 75D*, to be exact. (it's all chinese** to me, too)

Now, I didn't think the typical urethane bushing was that pliable but I guess I really wasn't thinking about the forces exerted on the components supported by them. So, looking back on when I helped my friend go ProThane on the 4-link in his Corolla, those bushings really weren't very tough. In fact, they were fairly soft. Of course they were harder than a solid rubber bushing and they definitely made one hell of a difference in the cars feel but...they sure as hell weren't as tough as the rear trailing-arm bushings that showed up on my door-step today.

And holy shit these things are tough. I would have to say that nylon wouldn't be much of an upgrade from these things. I'm pretty stoked right about now, to say the least. The only thing I regret is not ordering some front lower-control-arm bushings to go along with them.

Unfortunately, Rogue Engineering only seems to be catering to the BMW/Mini market but if you're serious about keeping your suspension geometry exactly where you put it when you're pushing your car to it's utter limits, pay attention to the bushings you're installing.

*Durometer Technical Information
**chinese isn't a language

BoxerSix · #2 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 07:14 AM

Bushings suck, monoballs/rod ends rule.........

Problem with most urethane busings if if they see REALLY hard use, they chance permanently deforming and end up worse than the oem rubber bushings. I don't like using them in suspension arms and stuff. Subframes and drivetrain mounts seems ok, but suspension arms bushing tend to deform easily with track use. Rod ends beat bushings in every aspect except for noise control, but that can be taken care of with dampened rod ends

Not to mention people put these in their cars and end up with a car that handles WORSE on the track(or road for that matter) and wonder why. Due to the fact that they didn't accompany the upgrade with a better suspension and/or tires to maintain tire grip after the suspension has been tightened up. Most OEM manufactures factor in bushing flex as a component in the cars' grip when designing the suspension

mikecentola · #3 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 07:26 AM

That's cool! On a side note, Rogue's OCT tuning thing looks pretty sweet, and they offer it for the coop coop

JClark · #4 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 07:57 AM

Ben Liaw and the guys at Rogue make REALLY solid stuff, however some of their engineering "breakthroughs" have been proven wrong over the years. 90% of their designs are awesome and I have a handful of their parts on my car.

And yes, monoballs rule. Noise control? Pfft.

Cavimike- Are you looking at any Rogue product in particular? If you're looking for bushings, check out Powerflex from Bimmerworld. UUC is also making top notch bushings lately.

Cavi Mike · #5 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavi Mike

...the rear trailing-arm bushings that showed up on my door-step today.

ftw

JClark · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 08:34 PM

Fun. Does the bushing/arm need to be realigned with the Rogue (not the general susp alignment, which needs to be done anyway)? Have fun with that, it's a whore to do.

Cavi Mike · #7 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 02:20 AM

Honestly, I don't have a clue but I'm not really too worried about it. As long as I can make the car driveable, I can bring it to my friends shop to get everything straight. Besides, I gotta bring it there to do my alignment. I'll prolly end up doing it all there anyways so I can put my rear-end in. Yeah, it's still sitting in my garage 4 months later. I'm lazy, what can I say. The real truth, these bushings probably won't even make it in the car this year. I really am that lazy.

lolrsk8r · #8 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavi Mike

Honestly, I don't have a clue but I'm not really too worried about it. As long as I can make the car driveable, I can bring it to my friends shop to get everything straight. Besides, I gotta bring it there to do my alignment. I'll prolly end up doing it all there anyways so I can put my rear-end in. Yeah, it's still sitting in my garage 4 months later. I'm lazy, what can I say. The real truth, these bushings probably won't even make it in the car this year. I really am that lazy.

sounds like a fun project! what kinda car are you (someday :-P) goin to install a rear end in? i read the post i didn't see a model, and i assume its not a cavalier lol

JClark · #9 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavi Mike

Honestly, I don't have a clue but I'm not really too worried about it. As long as I can make the car driveable, I can bring it to my friends shop to get everything straight. Besides, I gotta bring it there to do my alignment. I'll prolly end up doing it all there anyways so I can put my rear-end in. Yeah, it's still sitting in my garage 4 months later. I'm lazy, what can I say. The real truth, these bushings probably won't even make it in the car this year. I really am that lazy.

The OEM bushings need to be aligned in the carrier and then to the arm itself. Some aftermarket upgrades like Powerflex dont require alignment. If they do need to be aligned and they arent, they will tear themselves apart when weight is put on them. I found this out by installing my first set, dropping the car on the ground and they tore instantly. Had to do the whole job again, did I mention its a whore? Search bfc for the rtab threads or call Rogue.

Cavi Mike · #10 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 01:58 AM

lolrsk8r - E36 BMW 328(in signature) I'm still up in the air on whether or not I want to keep the car, it all depends on if my friend comes up with the money before I decide to keep it. If I get the rear all done I'll prolly fall back in love with the car. I just remembered that I still haven't put my rear springs and shocks in either. Damn, I'm really f'n lazy. I'm actually thinking about tackling the bushings tomorrow though, the right rear is so bad that every time I let off the gas, the ass swings to the left.

JClark - OH, I know what you're talking about now. You only need to do that with OEM style rubber bushings, thank god. It does look like it would be a pita, I've never seen anything like this before. Every other car I've worked on I could just leave everything loose until I compressed the suspension but obviousy that's not possible with this design. That whole straight-edge thing, forget that noise. I'd prolly be there all day trying to get that just right and I really don't have the patience for that.

Cavi Mike · #11 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 06:07 PM

Just finished putting them in. One thing I wasn't really too happy about was that the aluminum bushing was 1mm or more wider than the urethane bushing. Why would I want over 1mm of slop in a suspension I'm trying to take all the slop out of? I couldn't even get it in the carrier(not like I was going to leave it that way anyways). Other than having to face them off, everything went pretty smoothly. I know I need an alignment but just for shits I set them almost all the way toed out. hee hee hee *evil grin*